Where is HY - pointing to the ceiling Vs to Heaven

HH

Asked ai to explain:

The Talmudic story

Brachos, top of 48a.

📖 The Story

The Talmud relates that when they were young children, Abbaye and Rava were sitting before their teacher, Rabbah.

Rabbah asked them: "To whom do we recite blessings?" The children answered: "To the Merciful One (Rachamana)."

Rabbah then asked, "And this 'Merciful One,' where does He dwell?"

Rava pointed up to the ceiling of the study house (Beit Midrash).

Abbaye ran outside and pointed to the sky.

Rabbah was pleased and said that their answers showed they would both grow up to be great Sages.

Take 1:

Arizal's Explanation: The Arizal's teaching (part of Lurianic Kabbalah) implies that a person moves the upper worlds and encounters the Divine as an external reality. The two children were pointing to a transcendent, external Divinity, one within a contained holy space (the study hall) and the other in the expansive heavens, both outside the self.

Baal Shem Tov's Explanation: The Baal Shem Tov taught that this encounter happens within the person themselves. The "upper worlds" and the "Divine" are accessed through an internal, inner spiritual world and self-nullification before God. The two children were pointing to a reality that needs to be realized internally, not just externally. 

Take 2

This query refers to a story or discussion in the Talmud, often associated with the phrase "The world is filled with Him" (or a similar sentiment regarding God's omnipresence), which is famously interpreted by both the Bal Shem Tov and the Arizal.

The exact Talmudic source and its precise wording are subject to different traditions, but the story's common mystical interpretation relates to two different perceptions of the Divine presence:

📖 The Talmudic Scenario

The scenario you describe is often related to a discussion concerning the verse:

> "The whole earth is full of His glory" (Isaiah 6:3)

> 

The two actions—pointing to the ceiling and pointing to the sky—represent two distinct ways of perceiving God's presence, as taught by mystical masters.

 * The one pointing to the ceiling suggests that God is found within the boundaries and structures of our immediate, physical world.

 * The one pointing to the sky suggests that God is found beyond the material world, in the infinite and transcendent spiritual realm.

🌌 The Arizal's Explanation (Lurianic Kabbalah)

The Arizal (Rabbi Isaac Luria) views the two directions as representing the two primary aspects of the Divine presence created during the process of creation, known as Tzimtzum (Contraction) and Kav (Ray of Light) in Lurianic Kabbalah.

1. Pointing to the Sky (The Transcendent)

 * This represents God as He is prior to the Tzimtzum (Divine Contraction), or the level of Ohr Ein Sof (the Infinite Light).

 * It signifies the Transcendent God (Sovev Kol Almin)—the light that surrounds and is beyond all worlds, which is limitless and infinite, pointing to the grand, external expanse of the heavens.

2. Pointing to the Ceiling (The Immanent)

 * This represents God's light as it was measured and inserted after the Tzimtzum through the Kav (Ray of Light).

 * It signifies the Immanent God (Memale Kol Almin)—the light that fills and is within all worlds, confined and structured within the vessels of creation, pointing to the boundaries of the room (the created world).

For the Arizal, the ultimate truth encompasses both views, as God is both infinitely transcendent and intimately immanent.

✨ The Bal Shem Tov's Explanation (Hasidism)

The Bal Shem Tov (Rabbi Israel ben Eliezer, the founder of Hasidism) took the Arizal's esoteric concepts and applied them to the immediate, everyday religious experience of the individual.

He saw the two directions as two equally valid ways of serving God, each reflecting a different aspect of devotion, and both being correct in their own way.

1. Pointing to the Sky (The Mystic/Scholar)

 * This represents the service of God through ascension—trying to elevate oneself above the material world through deep contemplation, intense prayer, or rigorous scholarly study.

 * This is the path of the Tzaddik (righteous person) or the Talmid Chacham (Torah scholar), who seeks to grasp the transcendent, Sovev Kol Almin aspect of God.

2. Pointing to the Ceiling (The Simple Jew/Engagement)

 * This represents the service of God through immanence—finding God within the ordinary, mundane details of the physical world.

 * This is the path of the simple, sincere Jew who serves God with joy in their daily life, work, and even physical acts like eating or sleeping, revealing the immanent, Memale Kol Almin aspect of God inside the established limits (the ceiling).

For the Bal Shem Tov, the main teaching is that one doesn't need to be a great scholar to find God; God is present in every activity, and the simple person's sincere devotion is as valuable as the mystic's loftiest contemplation. Both have correctly identified a crucial aspect of the Divine.

Would you like to explore another parable or teaching from the Bal Shem Tov or the Arizal?

Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, the great-grandson of the Bal Shem Tov, explains the two directions—pointing to the ceiling and pointing to the sky—by focusing on the concept of the Tzaddik Emes (the True Righteous One) and the relationship between spiritual ascent and descent.

⛰️ The Explanation of Rabbi Nachman (Breslov Hasidism)

Rabbi Nachman interprets the actions as representing two paths of spiritual work, but with a unique emphasis on the ultimate goal:

1. Pointing to the Sky (The Ascent: Aliyah)

 * This represents the path of spiritual ascent (going up) and achieving lofty closeness to God by transcending the physical world.

 * It signifies the ability to rise up through the different spiritual realms (Olamot)—the heavens of Asiyah, Yetzirah, Beriyah, and finally the highest world of Atzilut—to be near the Infinite Light (Or\ Ein\ Sof).

 * In one teaching, Rabbi Nachman notes that this ascent is the power of the Tzaddik Emes (True Righteous One) who can go above all the created heavens.

2. Pointing to the Ceiling (The Descent: Yeridah)

 * This represents the greater and more difficult spiritual work: the descent (going down) back into the lowest places of the physical world (Olam Ha'Asiyah) to rescue and elevate fallen souls.

 * The ceiling represents the boundaries and limits of this physical world, and the Tzaddik's work is to enter the very lowest, most restrictive spiritual circumstances.

 * Rabbi Nachman teaches that the power of the Tzaddik Emes to go down to the place where a wicked person has descended, and to bring that person back, is actually the greatest act possible—even greater than the ascent.

The Core Teaching: Yeridah Tachlit Aliyah

While the Arizal and the Bal Shem Tov saw the two directions as dual aspects of God's presence (Memale and Sovev), Rabbi Nachman sees the descent as the purpose and ultimate refinement of the ascent.

The key idea is his concept of Yeridah Tachlit Aliyah—"The descent is for the purpose of an ascent."

 * First, the Tzaddik must ascend (point to the sky) to connect with the source of Divine power.

 * Then, the Tzaddik must descend (point to the ceiling/ground) to apply that power, uplift the fallen sparks of holiness, and redeem those who are lost in the material world.

Therefore, pointing to the sky connects one to the infinite source, but pointing to the ceiling emphasizes the crucial and greater work of redemption within the finite creation.

Great blessings of Na Nach Nachmu Nachman Meuman!